Ok these are my views. It's ok if you do not agree but please be civil about it. Last I looked we still lived in somewhat of a democracy and I have rights to have my own thoughts. We do not live in a Theocracy yet and I hope to whatever God(s) you believe in that we never will. If you want to disagree that is fine, that is what this country is about. Just do not try to threaten me, cuss me out, or in any try to brow beat me for believing in something other than what you do.
Politics and Religion
A lot of people wrongly assume that America was founded on Christian views. It was not. Most don't bother to do their own research they just listen to someone that has not looked up the truth because they don't want to believe it. So honestly if any candidate wants to push their religious agenda than that will be the last person I vote for. This country was NOT founded on ANY religion and I for one do not want the US to move anymore towards a Theocracy.
Let's start with our first presidents:
Let's start with our first presidents:
1. George Washington – While he may have gone to church this is from the 2 pastors/preachers that knew him quite well and for years.
"I do not believe that any degree of recollection will bring to my mind any fact which would prove General Washington to have been a believer in the Christian revelation further than as may be hoped from his constant attendance upon Christian worship, in connection with the general reserve of his character" ("Memoir of Bishop White,")Dr. Abercrombie's brief but emphatic answer was: "Sir, Washington was a Deist."
2. John Adams – He himself wrote these statements.
In a letter to Thomas Jefferson, he wrote:
"I almost shudder at the thought of alluding to the most fatal example of the abuses of grief which the history of mankind has preserved -- the Cross. Consider what calamities that engine of grief has produced!"
In his letter to Samuel Miller, 8 July 1820, Adams admitted his unbelief of Protestant Calvinism: "I must acknowledge that I cannot class myself under that denomination."
One other thing both about Washington and Adams, The Treaty of Tripoli was written during Washington's time in office, ratified and ok'd by the Congress at the time and signed by Adams. When it was signed it became law at that point. The treaty says "As the Government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Musselmen; and as the said States never have entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mehomitan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries."
3. Thomas Jefferson – His own writings
"I have recently been examining all the known superstitions of the world, and do not find in our particular superstition [Christianity] one redeeming feature. They are all alike, founded upon fables and mythologies"
"Millions of innocent men, women, and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined, and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch toward uniformity. What has been the effect of coercion? To make one-half the world fools and the other half hypocrites."
"In our Richmond there is much fanaticism, but chiefly among the women. They have their night meetings and praying parties, where, attended by their priests, and sometimes by a henpecked husband, they pour forth the effusions of their love to Jesus in terms as amatory and carnal as their modesty would permit to a merely earthly lover"
A short time before his death, Jefferson, in a letter to John Adams, after commending the morals of Jesus, wrote as follows concerning his philosophical belief:
"It is not to be understood that I am with him [Jesus] in all his doctrines. I am a Materialist."
4. James Madison – In 1785, Madison wrote in his Memorial and Remonstrance against Religious Assessments:
"During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What have been its fruits? More or less in all places, pride and indolence in the Clergy, ignorance and servility in the laity; in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution."
"What influence, in fact, have ecclesiastical establishments had on society? In some instances they have been seen to erect a spiritual tyranny on the ruins of the civil authority; on many instances they have been seen upholding the thrones of political tyranny; in no instance have they been the guardians of the liberties of the people. Rulers who wish to subvert the public liberty may have found an established clergy convenient auxiliaries. A just government, instituted to secure and perpetuate it, needs them not."
He also wrote this:
“Strongly guarded as is the separation between Religion & Govt in the Constitution of the United States the danger of encroachment by Ecclesiastical Bodies, my be illustrated by precedents already furnished in their shorty history.”
“But besides the danger of a direct mixture of Religion & the civil Government, there is an evil which ought to be guarded agst in the indefinite accumulation of property from the capacity of holding it in perpetuity by ecclesiastical corporations. The power of all corporations, ought to be limited in this respect. The growing wealth acuired by them never fails to be a source of abuses.”
5. James Monroe – While not much survives of his writings on religion this is from some that knew him wellJames Renwick Willson, a Reformed Presbyterian minister in Albany, New York, criticized Monroe for having "lived and died like a second-rate Athenian philosopher."
He has been classified by some historians as a Deist because he used deistic language to refer to an impersonal God. Unlike Jefferson, Monroe was rarely attacked as an atheist and infidel for his deistic views.
6. John Qunicy Adams – His own writings
"There are in this country, as in all others, a certain proportion of restless and turbulent spirits - poor, unoccupied, ambitious - who must always have something to quarrel about with their neighbors. These people are the authors of religious revivals."
7. Andrew Jackson – He is actually our first recorded relgious president. But he still kept the government and religion separate.
“I could not do otherwise without transcending the limits prescribed by the Constitution for the President and without feeling that I might in some degree disturb the security which religion nowadays enjoys in this country in its complete separation form the political concerns of the General Government.” (letter explaining his refusal to proclaim a national day of, among other things, prayer.)
8. Martin Van Buren – Supposidly Dutch Reformed
I say supposidly because while he went to and was buried Dutch Reformed he never joined a church. Quite a few are doubtful on whether he really was or if he just went to church with his wife.
9. William Henry Harrison – He has the distintiction of having the shortest time as President, 30 days 12 hours and 30 minutes. His death helped to figure out who really would take over in time of incapacitation.
His father was Episcapalian but went to a Presbyterian school. He got involved with Quakers and Methodists.
10. John Taylor – If it was not for Harrisons death he would have appearently just retired back home and done extremely little while VP. Also the 1st that they tried to impeach. While he was reported to be Episcapalian he did write this:
“The United States have adventured upon a great and noble experiment, which is believed to have been hazarded in the absence of all previous precedent -- that of total separation of Church and State. No religious establishment by law exists among us. The conscience is left free from all restraint and each is permitted to worship his Maker after his own judgement. The offices of the Government are open alike to all. No tithes are levied to support an established Hierarchy, nor is the fallible judgement of man set up as the sure and infallible creed of faith. The Mahommedan, if he will to come among us would have the privilege guaranteed to him by the constitution to worship according to the Koran; and the East Indian might erect a shrine to Brahma if it so pleased him. Such is the spirit of toleration inculcated by our political Institutions.... The Hebrew persecuted and down trodden in other regions takes up his abode among us with none to make him afraid.... and the Aegis of the Government is over him to defend and protect him. Such is the great experiment which we have tried, and such are the happy fruits which have resulted from it; our system of free government would be imperfect without it.”
11. James K. Polk – Polk came from a Presbyterian upbringing but was not baptized as a child, due to a dispute with the local Presbyterian minister in rural North Carolina. Polk's father and grandfather were Deists, and the minister refused to baptize James unless his father affirmed Christianity, which he would not do. Polk had a conversion experience at a Methodist camp meeting when he was thirty-eight, and thereafter considered himself Methodist. Nevertheless he continued to attend Presbyterian services with his wife, though he went to the local Methodist chapel when she was ill or out of town. On his deathbed, he summoned the Rev. John B. McFerrin, who had converted him years before, to baptize him
12. Zachory Taylor – While he was raised Episcapalian and married one too, he appearently never became a member of a church.
13. Millard Fillmore – Showed very little religious tendacies until he joined a Unitarian church.
He did say this thou:
"In my opinion, Church and State should be separate, not only in form, but fact -- religion and politics should not be mingled." 14. Franklin Pierce – During his presidency appearently none but 4 years afterward became Episcapalian.
15. James Buchanan – He was raised Presbyterian but went to and supported various churches. He did finally become a member of the Presbyterian church after his presidency.
16. Abraham Lincoln – Just 2 things that sums up his religious views quite well I think
“My earlier views of the unsoundness of the Christian scheme of salvation and the human origin of the scriptures, have become clearer and stronger with advancing years and I see no reason for thinking I shall ever change them.”
And from his own wife, “Mr. Lincoln was not a Christian.”
People keep trying to say that he was religious or became religious but the quote from his own wife says much more than what anyone else could say about the subject.
17. Andrew Johnson – Parents were supposidly Baptist, he accomopanied his wife to Methodist services sometimes. He also went to Catholic services at times. He never claimed any one particular religion.
He only said this when questioned: "As for my religion, it is the doctrine of the Bible, as taught and practiced by Jesus Christ."
18. Ulysses S. Grant – Actually his real name was Hiram Ulysses Grant. When he was nominated to go the US Military Acadamy his name was written down as Ulysses S. Grant. Some speculate that the S either stood for Sam or an abbrivation of his mothers last name. While the family was Methodist he was never made to go to church.
He did say at one point “Leave the matter of religion to the family altar, the church and the private school supported entirely by private contributions. Keep the church and state forever separate.”
Research things on your own. Do NOT just listen or read one thing about stuff. The quotes and info come from several places.
About the Constitution:
Back in 1831 a Rev. Dr. Wilson was concerned and investigated not only the religious belief's but the constitution and God and what role they all played. He said this during a sermon:
"When the war was over and the victory over our enemies won, and the blessings and happiness of liberty and peace were secured, the Constitution was framed and God was neglected. He was not merely forgotten. He was absolutely voted out of the Constitution. The proceedings, as published by Thompson, the secretary, and the history of the day, show that the question was gravely debated whether God should be in the Constitution or not, and, after a solemn debate he was deliberately voted out of it. ... There is not only in the theory of our government no recognition of God's laws and sovereignty, but its practical operation, its administration, has been conformable to its theory. Those who have been called to administer the government have not been men making any public profession of Christianity.”
Quotes already listed by the early presidents show that they all wanted a separation of church and state completely.
Some of the sources are the framers own words. There are several sources for that:
And for those of you that would like to know more about Deism you can check this page out:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism
Excellent post!
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